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3:15 Time is on my side - Spoilers & Speculation
Just a note, there be spoilers for the ep, but I talk about the previews in another post.
Overall, I really liked this ep. I had some quibbles, and the smack in the face of Bela's backstory was a little -- jeez. I'll get to that, but while I love the moral ambiguity of the series in general, I really can give no props to the writers for pulling that trope out of their admittedly limited bag of tricks and once more reinforcing the twisted view of how women (or girls in this case) who are sexually assaulted somehow get what they deserve.
Back to that later though because I'm pretty sure my comments on it are going to outstrip my comments on the rest, and I pretty much LOVED the rest of the episode.
I didn't find it particularly gross. (beating heart, maggots and all. Funny how the ice cream scoop and Sam's taped wide eyes gave me the biggest EEWW!!) (And yes, Ladies and Gentlemen, I think we can officially claim JP's eyes as Hazel. At least on my TV.)
Dr. Parts is Parts was very creepy and very well played and I do give props to the rag-doll patchwork skin. (For thems that’s playing at home, in my "Never" series, that's pretty much how I see John's skin only without the big ass black stitches. Whee!)
I love that Sam lured Dean into the case with a promise of a zombie hunt. I love that Dean loves to hunt zombies.
The demon at the start was a pretty strong lead in, and the scene (including Sam's "I've got no regrets about this" smile, save for that token hesitation. I'm glad that Rufus survived the episode, although I admit I had a moment of thinking in the casting room that there was discussion of "We can't kill off both black guys!" But I think that's probably wishful thinking on my part. (However, Steven Williams rocked and the guy who played Demon at the bat was really, really good at being immobile but still threatening. Nicely played Red Shirt of the week. )
Someone else made the comment about his "Your mother!" being either just typical epithet tossing or maybe not. As crude as they seem to be getting language-wise (and I think it's because season 4 is in the bag commitment -wise,) I'm not sure it's a total toss off. I'm really hoping that we're going to find out that Mary's "I'm sorry" to Sam in "Home", the flashback the YED showed him where Mary recognized him, and the fact that Lilith holds Dean's contract are all going to come together. It makes me think that Mary may well have been of a previous generation of psychic kids, who some how finagled a deal between Demons to get out of her contract only to pass the legacy of it onto Sam.
In the back of my head I have this half-baked idea (which I started to turn into a Big Bang story only to get sidetracked by life) that maybe Mary made some kind of deal with to get a child (Dean) and that on the back side of it was payment in the form of another child (Sam.) It's the kind of mythological dealings often seen in tales of demons, although it makes less sense if Lilith is trying to ensure Sam's death, but for some reason, she can't actually do the deed herself -- like there's a prior bargain n there some where.
I mean, the implication is that if Dean reneges on his deal, Sam dies. Dean's pretty obviously not going to do that. Although if Lilith was the one who secured the deal in the first place, it looks more and more like insurance, like there was some huge thing between Lilith and the YED. Because it would have fit her plans for Sam just to remain dead, it seems like, only at the time, the YED was still around and kicking.
Anyway, back to episode. The girl with maggots seemed a little out of place. I mean, I get that he was extracting skin, and that the thing was, he didn't kill all his victims -- morality in a monster. Still, token Girl in danger. He only took the parts he needed. I like the idea that there were two parts to whatever Fountain of Immortality Doc Benton found -- both a serum and the need to replace body parts. Endlessly binding soul to boy maybe? Only the body parts would eventually fail and the soul would still be locked to whatever was left? That's the kind of creeptastic horror I like. I also thought it was really interesting that they a) didn't salt and burn him and b) that they buried him alive with his journal, like in case they needed to come back to him. That was odd but intriguing. Why not utterly destroy the remains and keep the book, because dudes, eventually those chains will rust away. (Also, I'm kind of boggling at the idea of two of them digging a pit that big, dropping a refrigerator (and chains!) into it then Doc Benton. Obviously the Impala is equipped with a mini backhoe somewhere in the trunk.
I was not surprised they split up again. I think it's stupid, yet again, (you two splitting up never bodes well) although I do like the way they played it. Another three weeks an Dean isn't going to be able to stop -- or save -- Sam ever again, an that moment of Sam saying "How are you going to stop me?" and the extremely painful parting pretty much put the nail in that coffin. Ah, Dean, you've screwed more than yourself in this deal, and I fear Sam's going to pay a price a lot more devestating than the one you are facing. It will be interesting seeing who will actually save who at this point. I have feeling that Lilith may change tactics at the end -- and As little as I personally want to see Sam go dark, I have no doubt that if Lilith said, "I get you, your body, your powers, your soul and Dean lives," Sam would say yes without hesitating. If you can't beat them, join them, right?
I won't talk about the previews here, but I have thoughts. (They are at the bottom - whited out. Highlight to read.)
All in all the brother on brother stuff really worked for me, the MOTW was interesting and creepy -- it was a good ep. While I disagree with the choices made for Bela's backstory (mostly because I think they were massive short cut to get to motivation and a weak attempt at evoking sympathy for a character) I think the intention behind I all worked. I mean, yes, it was obvious from the start that Bela no doubt had causation for being the way she was, and we knew from Ghost ship it was something to do with family of some sort. And needing to get out of her own deal was certainly motive enough for someone rich to go hunting artifacts because no doubt she spent her fortune looking for just something like the colt to get out of it.
I just really, really wish they'd used something other than being a victim of child abuse as the event that triggered it. I mean, it probably would have worked better of the character overall if it had been a far more selfish thing, rather than a child lashing out at her abusers, and I'm really ambivalent about the fact that we, the audience know it, but Dean and Sam don't. They will let her die because (logistics aside) they think she deserves it, which I get: her subsequent actions into adulthood make her horrible fate more palatable, but seriously -- a 14 year old makes a deal with a demon? I mean they went the same route with Max and all I can see are the implications that all abused children turn out evil, they all become lunatics or serial killers. That's one urban legend that really didn't need to be reiterated, thanks.
Although I admit, I've been trying to think of some other rationale for a 14 year old to make such a deal and am hitting a wall of further tropes: poverty-- nope. Terminal illness -- maybe.
I get that, in a lot of ways, the series has consistently presented the view that humans can be as monstrous as supernatural creatures. They blur the lines constantly, but this one just hit me wrong, and maybe in the way that it was meant to.
Someone else made the comment about the CRD coming to Bela --![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
alethialia, I think, and my reaction at the time was that Bela the child was at a metaphorical crossroads but they kind of borked their own internal mythology (as they so often do.)
I mean, I think that Bela being motivated by her own deal with the CRD is actually kind of brilliant and it really does explain much about her character. I just wish the causality for the deal had been handled with a little more thought.
Although, as far as exposition anvils go, I do think it poetic justice that it's Bela who reveals who holds Dean's contract -- that Lilith holds all of them. That would imply that Lilith has a good many souls at her command, all more or less willingly, or at least by their own choice.
And last note: How disappointed was I that while Sam was strapped to the table, he didn't have his shirt off? huh? I mean, I know, eyes, but still...it would have been nice to see his ...uh...tattoo!
Overall, I really liked this ep. I had some quibbles, and the smack in the face of Bela's backstory was a little -- jeez. I'll get to that, but while I love the moral ambiguity of the series in general, I really can give no props to the writers for pulling that trope out of their admittedly limited bag of tricks and once more reinforcing the twisted view of how women (or girls in this case) who are sexually assaulted somehow get what they deserve.
Back to that later though because I'm pretty sure my comments on it are going to outstrip my comments on the rest, and I pretty much LOVED the rest of the episode.
I didn't find it particularly gross. (beating heart, maggots and all. Funny how the ice cream scoop and Sam's taped wide eyes gave me the biggest EEWW!!) (And yes, Ladies and Gentlemen, I think we can officially claim JP's eyes as Hazel. At least on my TV.)
Dr. Parts is Parts was very creepy and very well played and I do give props to the rag-doll patchwork skin. (For thems that’s playing at home, in my "Never" series, that's pretty much how I see John's skin only without the big ass black stitches. Whee!)
I love that Sam lured Dean into the case with a promise of a zombie hunt. I love that Dean loves to hunt zombies.
The demon at the start was a pretty strong lead in, and the scene (including Sam's "I've got no regrets about this" smile, save for that token hesitation. I'm glad that Rufus survived the episode, although I admit I had a moment of thinking in the casting room that there was discussion of "We can't kill off both black guys!" But I think that's probably wishful thinking on my part. (However, Steven Williams rocked and the guy who played Demon at the bat was really, really good at being immobile but still threatening. Nicely played Red Shirt of the week. )
Someone else made the comment about his "Your mother!" being either just typical epithet tossing or maybe not. As crude as they seem to be getting language-wise (and I think it's because season 4 is in the bag commitment -wise,) I'm not sure it's a total toss off. I'm really hoping that we're going to find out that Mary's "I'm sorry" to Sam in "Home", the flashback the YED showed him where Mary recognized him, and the fact that Lilith holds Dean's contract are all going to come together. It makes me think that Mary may well have been of a previous generation of psychic kids, who some how finagled a deal between Demons to get out of her contract only to pass the legacy of it onto Sam.
In the back of my head I have this half-baked idea (which I started to turn into a Big Bang story only to get sidetracked by life) that maybe Mary made some kind of deal with to get a child (Dean) and that on the back side of it was payment in the form of another child (Sam.) It's the kind of mythological dealings often seen in tales of demons, although it makes less sense if Lilith is trying to ensure Sam's death, but for some reason, she can't actually do the deed herself -- like there's a prior bargain n there some where.
I mean, the implication is that if Dean reneges on his deal, Sam dies. Dean's pretty obviously not going to do that. Although if Lilith was the one who secured the deal in the first place, it looks more and more like insurance, like there was some huge thing between Lilith and the YED. Because it would have fit her plans for Sam just to remain dead, it seems like, only at the time, the YED was still around and kicking.
Anyway, back to episode. The girl with maggots seemed a little out of place. I mean, I get that he was extracting skin, and that the thing was, he didn't kill all his victims -- morality in a monster. Still, token Girl in danger. He only took the parts he needed. I like the idea that there were two parts to whatever Fountain of Immortality Doc Benton found -- both a serum and the need to replace body parts. Endlessly binding soul to boy maybe? Only the body parts would eventually fail and the soul would still be locked to whatever was left? That's the kind of creeptastic horror I like. I also thought it was really interesting that they a) didn't salt and burn him and b) that they buried him alive with his journal, like in case they needed to come back to him. That was odd but intriguing. Why not utterly destroy the remains and keep the book, because dudes, eventually those chains will rust away. (Also, I'm kind of boggling at the idea of two of them digging a pit that big, dropping a refrigerator (and chains!) into it then Doc Benton. Obviously the Impala is equipped with a mini backhoe somewhere in the trunk.
I was not surprised they split up again. I think it's stupid, yet again, (you two splitting up never bodes well) although I do like the way they played it. Another three weeks an Dean isn't going to be able to stop -- or save -- Sam ever again, an that moment of Sam saying "How are you going to stop me?" and the extremely painful parting pretty much put the nail in that coffin. Ah, Dean, you've screwed more than yourself in this deal, and I fear Sam's going to pay a price a lot more devestating than the one you are facing. It will be interesting seeing who will actually save who at this point. I have feeling that Lilith may change tactics at the end -- and As little as I personally want to see Sam go dark, I have no doubt that if Lilith said, "I get you, your body, your powers, your soul and Dean lives," Sam would say yes without hesitating. If you can't beat them, join them, right?
I won't talk about the previews here, but I have thoughts. (They are at the bottom - whited out. Highlight to read.)
All in all the brother on brother stuff really worked for me, the MOTW was interesting and creepy -- it was a good ep. While I disagree with the choices made for Bela's backstory (mostly because I think they were massive short cut to get to motivation and a weak attempt at evoking sympathy for a character) I think the intention behind I all worked. I mean, yes, it was obvious from the start that Bela no doubt had causation for being the way she was, and we knew from Ghost ship it was something to do with family of some sort. And needing to get out of her own deal was certainly motive enough for someone rich to go hunting artifacts because no doubt she spent her fortune looking for just something like the colt to get out of it.
I just really, really wish they'd used something other than being a victim of child abuse as the event that triggered it. I mean, it probably would have worked better of the character overall if it had been a far more selfish thing, rather than a child lashing out at her abusers, and I'm really ambivalent about the fact that we, the audience know it, but Dean and Sam don't. They will let her die because (logistics aside) they think she deserves it, which I get: her subsequent actions into adulthood make her horrible fate more palatable, but seriously -- a 14 year old makes a deal with a demon? I mean they went the same route with Max and all I can see are the implications that all abused children turn out evil, they all become lunatics or serial killers. That's one urban legend that really didn't need to be reiterated, thanks.
Although I admit, I've been trying to think of some other rationale for a 14 year old to make such a deal and am hitting a wall of further tropes: poverty-- nope. Terminal illness -- maybe.
I get that, in a lot of ways, the series has consistently presented the view that humans can be as monstrous as supernatural creatures. They blur the lines constantly, but this one just hit me wrong, and maybe in the way that it was meant to.
Someone else made the comment about the CRD coming to Bela --
alethialia, I think, and my reaction at the time was that Bela the child was at a metaphorical crossroads but they kind of borked their own internal mythology (as they so often do.)I mean, I think that Bela being motivated by her own deal with the CRD is actually kind of brilliant and it really does explain much about her character. I just wish the causality for the deal had been handled with a little more thought.
Although, as far as exposition anvils go, I do think it poetic justice that it's Bela who reveals who holds Dean's contract -- that Lilith holds all of them. That would imply that Lilith has a good many souls at her command, all more or less willingly, or at least by their own choice.
And last note: How disappointed was I that while Sam was strapped to the table, he didn't have his shirt off? huh? I mean, I know, eyes, but still...it would have been nice to see his ...uh...tattoo!
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Sam and Dean splitting up paid for itself with Dean's parting "Sammy, be careful," and the look on his face. And Dean's conversation with Rufus was amazing (Steven Williams!!) Dean's fear and desperation, coupled with his hard-assedness and his continuing determination to fight for life but not at the cost of becoming a monster or, especially, endangering Sam by reneging on the deal, really resonated with me. As did Sam's increasing willingness to try anything, however dicey (no pun intended!), to try and save Dean. All in all, where the brothers were concerned, I agree that this episode hit the mark.
I think you are correct in assuming that Bela's motivation was cobbled together to try and make her more sympathetic before she bows out altogether. Too bad they didn't have time to be a little more inventive about explaining her deal. On the other hand, I thought Lauren Cohan did a really good job with Bela's emotional reactions. And, of course, I loved it that Dean was not sucked in to her desperate plot.
I'm not surprised that it is Lilith who holds Dean's contract. Given all the varying mythology surrounding Lilith and the show's propensity for putting their own spin on things, I am interested to see how the character plays out in the future. One thing they have always emphasized, though, is that even demons have to play by certain rules, and that could help to explain why Lilith's agent made the deal with Dean in the first place. Of course, the deal was a significant source of distraction for Sam and increased his vulnerability, which could well have played right into Lilith's hands and almost did a time or two. "The bad guys know it, too..."
Re: shirtless sam FTW, yeah!
Re: shirtless sam FTW, yeah!
And the sobbing? I was grinning. Too little too late bitch!!!! I even waved at my t.v. when the hounds bayed. ((sheesh I must have a mean streak))
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Actually, and call me jaded, a 14-year old needs little provocation to lash out at her parents. I've heard of at least three incidents in my life where a teenage girl (anywhere from 14-17) either killed her parents herself or got her 'boyfriend' to do for grievences that none of us would think twice about, but are catastrophic to the right combination of flooding hormones and slightly unbalanced mind. Sometimes it was money, sometimes simply a mother forbidding her daughter to see a certain person. Children are really cruel. So, I think they could have gone the "I'm just a bitchy little spoiled brat kid who jumped at the opportunity to be out from under my parents' control" and then almost immediately regretted it and spent the next 10 years trying to undo the deal she made. *shrug* I don't know... I think they definitely could have had the same effect on Sam and Dean and US without playing the abuse card. Or, if they just HAD to go that route, make it more corporal punishment abuse (ala, Max) rather than blatantly sexual.
What bothered me more than Bela, and I have yet to see any comment about it on my flist, except for you mention above, which still didn't hit the sore spot I'm feeling, is the absolute cruelty of locking up Frankenstein and burying him alive. THere was really no excuse for that and it would have been a helluva lot easier to hack him up in pieces and bury them in separate spots than to dig that bigass hole and haul a fridge out (HAHAHAH, backhoe in the Impala. I love that).
Despite only having three weeks left, MY Dean and Sam would do that.
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Outside the series., I think the whole buried alive thing got done because Kripke, Manners and Gamble thought it would be creepily cool. *g*
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also, I'm not nearly enamoured of Gamble as I was last season. She's way to fond of killing everyone who has a minute chance of being an interesting return character.
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I absolutely agree with you, Ms. Maygra! It seems really out of character for Dean and Sam to do something like that! As much as I disliked Doc Benson, I sure felt sorry for him being buried alive. Anyway, I always did have a fear of being buried alive so seeing this really freaks me out.
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((and the mini backhoe in the impala thing cracked me up !!!!))
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I thought it was weird, too. The Frankentstein dude made it clear that he had to keep replacing worn-out parts to keep functioning. If they just burned him, wouldn't that end the cycle? I mean, yeah, still torture, but they could have drugged him into oblivion first, and at least it wouldn't last for YEARS.
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I dislike the entire attempt to make Bela sympathetic. I think the reason she worked at all as a character (for me) is that she represented a completely different sort of person in the world of those who deal with the supernatural: she wasn't a scientist, she wasn't an altruist...she was an unabashed capitalist. And that's how they should have left her.
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And while I get that there are times when teens may want their parents dead, unless there's something else going on, I don't think it happens enoguht ot make a thing or trend out of it, or we'd all have grown up without benefit of parents.
See, if Bela had been involved in a car accident with her parents at 14 and was paralyzed or otherwise made infirm or something, I could see a perfect opportunity to make a deal -- and still supply the back story of why Bela becomes so mercenary. (Not unlike the guy that made the deal to get his wife cured of cancer.) It would still be reason enough for her to be the way she is without playing the child abuse card.
Just especulating my ass off (since I don't know any spoilers)
I must confess that I squee like a banshee when the demon told Dean "Your mother". I was like OMG! but I guess it wasn't meant to be. I sure as hell would love to see more about Mary and why everyone she ever met is dead.
I think that back when YED was still alive Lilith might have been working with him. He was happy when Dean made the deal and he knew about it, which lets me think he and Lilith were on it together. She might have just decided to kill Sam after YED died and Sam didn't live up to the expectations they had of him. Interestingly enough, she waited to claim the power --at the beginning no demon tried to take leadership-- as if she wanted to see what Sam would do and when he didn't step up, well... Too bad.
I still believe that Sam has the potential to step up still, which would explain why she wants him dead.
So much potential.
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::agrees x 1000:: Seemed a little easy, to go that route. And, it might have been meant to be spread out over several eps, so there was heavy-handedness with the time contraints.
Everybody else who was on the table (except the required damsel in distress) had their shirts off. We got ripped off, there.
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I think I'll fanwank it in my brain. :(
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I am so with you on this, Bela and her past really irks me. I have been fortunate enough to have a wonderful family. That said I also have family members that had a childhood that today would have gotten them taken away and put in foster care. I also have several friends who have suffered from sexual abuse as a child though none from a parent. Heck my parish priest growing up and the boyscout master/deacon were both extremely active pedophile, and a quarter of the boys in my 8th grade class were effected. I won't say that people I know don't have problems, because that is not true. But most abused children grow up with out killing their abusers, many with out any violence at all in their lives. Ofte when the abuser is family member like a parent, they may even still love them despite all the bad things that have happened. Besides 14 is well beyond the age of reason, its not like she was 6 or even 8, she understood what she was doing - she had the reasoning capacity. So Bela's excuse just doesn't work for me, I find the hard life excuse a bunch of hogwash. It just a disservice to those who have really suffered. I don understand why they couldn't just made Bela plain evil, or jealous or greedy. Its not like this type of person doesn't exist. Even children as young as 8 are known to thrill kill, or kill out of greed. Sorry just a real bug of mine
Sigh - even so great episode
Zaz