Real life pedophilia and child abuse causes actual, quantifiable harm to identifiable (and arguably vulnerable) members of our society -- children. Discussions and stories written about it may cause actual, quantifiable distress in some people, but distress is not in an of itself harmful. It is uncomfortable, it is something most people can and will avoid at all costs. The line is not, "pedophilia is defensible" because I think most people would seriously agree that it's not.
The line is that thoughts and words do not equate to actions. I don't think the writers of movies like "Ocean's 11" 12 & 13, are promoting either theft con games as healthy societal values. What they are fascinated with is the personalities that are drawn to and commit such crimes. I don't think JK Rowling is promoting witchcraft in her Harry Potter Novels -- I do think she is fascinated by the scope and breath of magic and what would draw people to it, and what kind of people actually want to learn and practice it (Regardless of whether she believes it exists in any form in Real Life or not). I don't think the people who wrote "OZ" think prison rape is a good thing -- but I do think they are fascinated by the whole concept of a closed society within a society and how that changes people.
I don't think an writers who write about incest, or child abuse, or rape, are promoting those as good things in and of themselves. I don't deny that some people get off on it -- I think writing in general is the *best* place in the world to explore and examine and even *change* the way we look at things, be they what we fear or what we desire.
And I don't think, in any but a very few isolated incidents, that such writing have an impact on the larger world *Except* as a spring broad for we as a society discussing them and yes, drawing ad redrawing lines. The magic in Harry Potter did not suddenly increase or make possible magic in the real world. Incest written by fans in SPN or Numb3rs did not suddenly make it okay for fans to make sexual overtures to the siblings, or suddenly increase the likelihood that they would.
I personally, don't think moral standards should be hoisted on anyone but ourselves. My moral standards dictate that I treat certain subjects in a certain way. Your moral standards may differ greatly from mine. Saying, "You shouldn't write about that and I'm going to stop you" is no different than saying, "You should write about that and I'm going to make you."
The difference here is persuasion, through discussion which is mostly what's happening and coercion by threats which is happening in fewer places but has, in many ways, (as do all threats) more impact.
In my mind the actual "harm" alluded to in fictional accounts of fictional characters is far less than the actual "harm" done in the name of Moral Standards when it really has more to do with people being averse to being uncomfortable.
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carisma_sensei
no subject
Date: 2007-06-09 01:46 pm (UTC)The line is that thoughts and words do not equate to actions. I don't think the writers of movies like "Ocean's 11" 12 & 13, are promoting either theft con games as healthy societal values. What they are fascinated with is the personalities that are drawn to and commit such crimes. I don't think JK Rowling is promoting witchcraft in her Harry Potter Novels -- I do think she is fascinated by the scope and breath of magic and what would draw people to it, and what kind of people actually want to learn and practice it (Regardless of whether she believes it exists in any form in Real Life or not). I don't think the people who wrote "OZ" think prison rape is a good thing -- but I do think they are fascinated by the whole concept of a closed society within a society and how that changes people.
I don't think an writers who write about incest, or child abuse, or rape, are promoting those as good things in and of themselves. I don't deny that some people get off on it -- I think writing in general is the *best* place in the world to explore and examine and even *change* the way we look at things, be they what we fear or what we desire.
And I don't think, in any but a very few isolated incidents, that such writing have an impact on the larger world *Except* as a spring broad for we as a society discussing them and yes, drawing ad redrawing lines. The magic in Harry Potter did not suddenly increase or make possible magic in the real world. Incest written by fans in SPN or Numb3rs did not suddenly make it okay for fans to make sexual overtures to the siblings, or suddenly increase the likelihood that they would.
I personally, don't think moral standards should be hoisted on anyone but ourselves. My moral standards dictate that I treat certain subjects in a certain way. Your moral standards may differ greatly from mine. Saying, "You shouldn't write about that and I'm going to stop you" is no different than saying, "You should write about that and I'm going to make you."
The difference here is persuasion, through discussion which is mostly what's happening and coercion by threats which is happening in fewer places but has, in many ways, (as do all threats) more impact.
In my mind the actual "harm" alluded to in fictional accounts of fictional characters is far less than the actual "harm" done in the name of Moral Standards when it really has more to do with people being averse to being uncomfortable.