Fan History
Jul. 23rd, 2008 12:02 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
maygraIn case anyone had any question (or even knew) I've resigned as a sys op from FanHistory.com. Yes I was, and while I haven't done anything in awhile, and found out about the whole kerfluffle just yesterday, I cranked up my cranky laptop and removed myself as an administrator and asked Laura to remove me as a sysop.
I'm sure no one cares about the details of why I joined in the first place (although it was early on when it started) but feel free to ask if you are curious.
Otherwise, please check this post
http://liviapenn.livejournal.com/521028.html
for the reasons why I've disassociated myself from a project and person who I once tried to work with to actually provide a resource. I've got a long-standing issue about fans making large amounts of money of other fans for personal use.
Now, I'm off before I get fired.
ETA: I want to be clear, I've personally had generally good interactions with Laura. We have disagreed about things, but I felt we were able to discuss them and usually with a resolution I could live with. That said, I'm not here to make judgments or assumptions based on Laura's motives or character, only on her actions, which I find unacceptable, specifically:
1) I disagree vehemently with fans outing other fans. I can't tell you how much this pisses me off.
2) I disagree with Fans making money off other fans for personal gain. (There are exceptions to this (like art) and a certain amount of flexibilty regarding costs of goods and expenses in producing those goods, but no, I'm not willing to underwrite your car payment or so you can drive to more cons (that's an example -- not something I know or suspect her to have done.)
3) I get that everyone's got their opinion on OTW. Mine is generally favorable and I have donated (mostly because I really want that archive.) You can check back posts for what else I have to say. I do not think the OTW is all things to all fans, and I see no problem with their being multiple fan wikis or even archives. And I can promise you, if I ever suspect the OTW is somehow providing individual profit outside of reasonable operating costs for the people running it, I'll be the first one to call the IRS to get their 501(c) status revoked.
I disagree with a lot of fans over a lot of issues who I otherwise enjoy being friends with or in contact with. I don't actually know, yet (because I haven't had time to think about it) how this affects how I think of Laura as a person whom I've, in general, enjoyed talking to. I am unhappy that it has gotten to this point, and am dismayed by what I'm seeing. I am disappointed that once more, it appears that ego rather than empathy has managed to cause a shitstorm in fandom.
I'm kind of glad my computer has been dead for a week or more. I don't need this. I'm seriously at the point where I want to finish my two auction stories and then fuck off to Second Life. Because really? I have enough drama in my real life at the moment, and fandom has become less of an escape and more of a brick wall closing in on the other side.
ETA2: Two points:
1.) The only discussion I was aware of (not involved in) was the possibility of moving the wiki to a site that generated ad traffic to defer the costs. By and large I don't object to that -- archives that run adds or take donations to cover costs. Generating actual profit from the site wasn't something I knew about and I didn't discuss it beyond the idea that covering costs wasn't an issue. Then again, I wasn't a major sys op. Mostly I cleaned up page messes.
2.) In regards to fan privacy: I was involved in one issue and my stance then was pretty much as written above. That's the only major clash I had with any of the other administrators of the site, and even it was handled (from my POV) amicably if a bit tensely, but I got into it rather late in that instance. I don't even know if I actually influenced the decision to reverse the page content, but I was pretty clear on my stance on the whole thing.
Final ETA: Everyone has been really wonderful in the comments and I thank you. But I don't want to come off as being entirely in the dark about Laura's rep, even when I started. I'm not exactly new to fandom, to ego politics, or to the idea that fans can be as incredibly selfish and self-serving as they are generous and creative. So, to be really clear: I don't take the opinions of one fan or even groups of fans opinions on another fan entirely on faith. I've spent way to many hours with friends who have been hurt or attacked or misunderstood, sometimes people I really and truly love and like being at total odds with other other people I like and admire. I think I'm a good friend most of the time, but I'm not a blind one.
I've rarely felt like the decision not to take stand on someone based solely on the fact that people I respect don't like them or disagree with them or whatever. There are people in fandom who think I'm a condescending bitch or a liar or both. Trying to change their minds isn't something I waste a lot of time on any longer, but I do get that what people see and hear and what was done and said can sometimes not be entirely in synch. Not knowing about Laura's plans is not the same thing as having been deceived by her. Being complicitly involved in decisions in absentia, is as much my own fault as anything, because I didn't care to get involved in the development of the site beyond being a client provided. I disliked the bias and told her so, and disagreed rather more loudly with the idea that linking online personas with real time people was a bad idea and came off as vindictive whether it was meant to be so or not.
That's been awhile ago. As far as I know, my name or rep was never used to further the aims of some personal or business goals. I consider![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
astolat to be a friend and someone I respect. Had I known about this before it was all pretty much said and done, I might have said something. I'd like to think I would have.
I prefer to give people the benefit of a doubt. This became too much doubt and not enough benefit -- for anyone. Myself included. I'm not a victim of anything here. At best, I'm someone who knowingly didn't look too closely at some things. There's enough being laid at Laura's feet that are legitimate gripes and real concerns. I'm not one of them. But I'd rather be the one to say, here, this is what I did and why, rather than someone tripping over my name on a discussion page. Not so much, CYA, as head's up.
I'm sure no one cares about the details of why I joined in the first place (although it was early on when it started) but feel free to ask if you are curious.
Otherwise, please check this post
http://liviapenn.livejournal.com/521028.html
for the reasons why I've disassociated myself from a project and person who I once tried to work with to actually provide a resource. I've got a long-standing issue about fans making large amounts of money of other fans for personal use.
Now, I'm off before I get fired.
ETA: I want to be clear, I've personally had generally good interactions with Laura. We have disagreed about things, but I felt we were able to discuss them and usually with a resolution I could live with. That said, I'm not here to make judgments or assumptions based on Laura's motives or character, only on her actions, which I find unacceptable, specifically:
1) I disagree vehemently with fans outing other fans. I can't tell you how much this pisses me off.
2) I disagree with Fans making money off other fans for personal gain. (There are exceptions to this (like art) and a certain amount of flexibilty regarding costs of goods and expenses in producing those goods, but no, I'm not willing to underwrite your car payment or so you can drive to more cons (that's an example -- not something I know or suspect her to have done.)
3) I get that everyone's got their opinion on OTW. Mine is generally favorable and I have donated (mostly because I really want that archive.) You can check back posts for what else I have to say. I do not think the OTW is all things to all fans, and I see no problem with their being multiple fan wikis or even archives. And I can promise you, if I ever suspect the OTW is somehow providing individual profit outside of reasonable operating costs for the people running it, I'll be the first one to call the IRS to get their 501(c) status revoked.
I disagree with a lot of fans over a lot of issues who I otherwise enjoy being friends with or in contact with. I don't actually know, yet (because I haven't had time to think about it) how this affects how I think of Laura as a person whom I've, in general, enjoyed talking to. I am unhappy that it has gotten to this point, and am dismayed by what I'm seeing. I am disappointed that once more, it appears that ego rather than empathy has managed to cause a shitstorm in fandom.
I'm kind of glad my computer has been dead for a week or more. I don't need this. I'm seriously at the point where I want to finish my two auction stories and then fuck off to Second Life. Because really? I have enough drama in my real life at the moment, and fandom has become less of an escape and more of a brick wall closing in on the other side.
ETA2: Two points:
1.) The only discussion I was aware of (not involved in) was the possibility of moving the wiki to a site that generated ad traffic to defer the costs. By and large I don't object to that -- archives that run adds or take donations to cover costs. Generating actual profit from the site wasn't something I knew about and I didn't discuss it beyond the idea that covering costs wasn't an issue. Then again, I wasn't a major sys op. Mostly I cleaned up page messes.
2.) In regards to fan privacy: I was involved in one issue and my stance then was pretty much as written above. That's the only major clash I had with any of the other administrators of the site, and even it was handled (from my POV) amicably if a bit tensely, but I got into it rather late in that instance. I don't even know if I actually influenced the decision to reverse the page content, but I was pretty clear on my stance on the whole thing.
Final ETA: Everyone has been really wonderful in the comments and I thank you. But I don't want to come off as being entirely in the dark about Laura's rep, even when I started. I'm not exactly new to fandom, to ego politics, or to the idea that fans can be as incredibly selfish and self-serving as they are generous and creative. So, to be really clear: I don't take the opinions of one fan or even groups of fans opinions on another fan entirely on faith. I've spent way to many hours with friends who have been hurt or attacked or misunderstood, sometimes people I really and truly love and like being at total odds with other other people I like and admire. I think I'm a good friend most of the time, but I'm not a blind one.
I've rarely felt like the decision not to take stand on someone based solely on the fact that people I respect don't like them or disagree with them or whatever. There are people in fandom who think I'm a condescending bitch or a liar or both. Trying to change their minds isn't something I waste a lot of time on any longer, but I do get that what people see and hear and what was done and said can sometimes not be entirely in synch. Not knowing about Laura's plans is not the same thing as having been deceived by her. Being complicitly involved in decisions in absentia, is as much my own fault as anything, because I didn't care to get involved in the development of the site beyond being a client provided. I disliked the bias and told her so, and disagreed rather more loudly with the idea that linking online personas with real time people was a bad idea and came off as vindictive whether it was meant to be so or not.
That's been awhile ago. As far as I know, my name or rep was never used to further the aims of some personal or business goals. I consider
astolat to be a friend and someone I respect. Had I known about this before it was all pretty much said and done, I might have said something. I'd like to think I would have. I prefer to give people the benefit of a doubt. This became too much doubt and not enough benefit -- for anyone. Myself included. I'm not a victim of anything here. At best, I'm someone who knowingly didn't look too closely at some things. There's enough being laid at Laura's feet that are legitimate gripes and real concerns. I'm not one of them. But I'd rather be the one to say, here, this is what I did and why, rather than someone tripping over my name on a discussion page. Not so much, CYA, as head's up.
